Monday, June 15, 2009

Sex. How Soon Is Too Soon? Or Too Late!

I feel that when it comes to sex... Men have a Double Standard.
There's like a stricter moral(sexual) standard that applies to women.. but not men.

If a man has sex with many women... he's seen amongst peers as quite the stud and is envied by other men. But if a woman has many sexual partners, suddenly she's a whore.. promiscuous... so so cheap.

Are all men slightly schizo?? For instance... when on a first date with a woman, the man is (most probably) already thinking about having sex with her. Everything he does... from paying for dinner, to flattering her, to being a charmer... is aimed at getting her into bed (I think).

But if she goes to bed with him (after all his effort in getting her there)... he's going to think she's a slut for doing so!

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So is the key then... just not giving in, resisting and playing hard to get?

I don't think so.
Let me tell you an experience of mine- about 7 years ago... I was dating a guy... let's call him JOCKEY. Had a great first date... followed by maybe 4 more dates over the next couple of weeks. And he gave me a key to his apartment. His place was in the West, close to my university (while I lived all the way east.. in pasir ris). So he graciously offered the use of his place for rest anytime day or night. Nice right?

Then about a week later, we were out for dinner, he suddenly said - "Holly, I don't think this relationship is working out. Can I have my key back?" I was taken by surprised. I asked why... and he said something like... sex is important to him so he can't be with me.... blah blah..

Worst thing was- he had said all that BEFORE the food was served. So I took the key from my bag... placed it on the table, and slid it to him... I was feeling miserable, and embarrrassed (I don't know why.. but I was)... and still sat through a whole dinner! I should have just walked off.. but I was young.. and stupid. haha.

I didn't understand it then.. and still don't understand it now. If I slept with him early in the relationship.. he would have probably thought I was easy, and not treat me with respect. Yet when I didn't sleep with him... I still got the boot!

And it's not like I was frigid... in fact... had the relationship developed further.. intimacy would definitely be part of the picture. But it's like there's some sort of time frame... a window. If you jump in (to bed) too early, they don't respect you. They start thinking that you're an easy lay, and that you sleep with everyone. They're going to ask themselves - God! How many guys were here before me?! or ... How many cocks has SHE sucked?
Yet... ( in my experience)... if you miss that window... they lose interest in you.

[P/S- I'm happy I didn't sleep with JOCKEY anyway... what a jerk.]

I'm attached now.. so it doesn't matter to me as much. But I've always wondered what the rules to this game are. Men out there (even women) enlighten me if you can. :)

When is it appropriate to get intimate? (3 dates? 10 dates? 1 year??!)
If a woman has sex/BJ on the first date, what do you think of her?
If a woman doesn't have sex with you, how long can she sustain your interest before you lose interest?
Does any of this change as you get older?
Would be interesting to find out what you think :)

36 comments:

  1. Socky aka Pearlin3:09 am

    If a woman has sex/BJ on the first date, what do you think of her?
    I would wonder why would she wanted to have sex/BJ on the first date. Does she want to hav a ONS and jus to have some pleasure? Or she is really interested with her date and wanted to continue dating with him. But i think on 1st thought, most ppl would probably still think that this woman is cheap. To me, i like things go slowly and steady. Having sex on 1st date is too rush for me..
    If a woman doesn't have sex with you, how long can she sustain your interest before you lose interest?
    Well, i think it all really depend of what kind of guy u date. Depends on which kind of man he is and how he rank his sex life ba..

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  2. Brandon3:38 am

    As a man, I have to admit that it's double standard when it comes to society's take on the sexual habits of men and women ( along with many other things). It's a sad truth.. I have to say when it comes to sex, there are generally two kinds of women, the ones I'd want to play with and the ones I'd want to stay with. Again, as I've said in some other post, it depends on the kind of man one is looking for and the kind of woman one is. Not all men are looking for sex on the first or 100th date. I personally think it's okay for women to get intimate with a man whenever she chooses to, even if it's the first, IF and ONLY if, she's doing it to please herself, and not other other vested interest like the guy's money, car, house etc. But I also know some of my guy friends expect sex from a woman, as they feel they're providing her with incentives such as aforementioned.
    The funny or nice thing about my relationship right now, is that I fell in love with my best friend. We've known each other for 10 years and got together recently, she has sustained my interest in her (although it was subconscious) all along, without any sexual intimacy. And I know she's the one. I may be an anomaly, but i'm positive there are men like me out there. heh.
    One point...half of society is made up of women. Women can change views, for a start women can refrain from using derogatory terms against their female counterparts who have sex for their sole pleasure. ;)

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  3. Anonymous3:50 am

    not counting when I was a teenager.. but adult life , most women I date have sex by third date.

    I think thats ok bah.I don't see them as sluts.

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  5. thanks for highlighting this topic! I'm 23 and had an ang moh boyfriend and yeah though he said we didnt have to do the nasty if I didn't want to, in the end he kept pressuring me to put off and I ended up giving him BJs to shut him up and we broke up coz he wanted to do it and I didnt. I really regret giving him BJs and I wish that there wasn't so much emphasis on sex these days. I dont think women are considered sluts if they sleep around, they are considered having so-called adult relationships. Now i'm too freaked out to date anyone anymore!!!

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  6. Celestina8:10 am

    Unfortunately, sex & relationship do come together. It a package deal. So far the relationship I've been in, if I said No, the relationship ended faster than u can imagine. Ironically, those relationship i agreed to hv sex, also nvr lasted long.

    Ive learnt overtime tat sex is jus inevitable in a relationship. BUT it does nt mean giving in for sex wil ever make it last longer. One thing for sure, not doing it will definitely end it earlier.. sad!

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  7. why not sex after marriage.. afterall wouldn't that be the best time where emotions and commitment mature and intimacy becomes the reward for that.

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  8. its a dilemna , after all if you don"t sleep with the guy someone else will - my guy friends dated party girls who sllep with them on first dte but all married girls who was more reserved - after all if she's that easy now what would she be like if you marry her !

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  9. Anonymous1:55 pm

    hey holly..very interesting post..and this question has been bugging me since my relationship ended.

    my boyfriend and i used to live overseas and had a rather intimate relationship, but it never crossed over to sex..i guess it kept him excited because he could never take his hands off me but yet i never gave him the permission to go all the way to 3rd base.

    after we came back to singapore, we didn't get intimate anymore because we don't own an individual apartment. i'm not sure if i'm thinking too much or what, but i am very sure that his sexual interest in me took a nosedive after 2 months of being not intimate..and eventually he even started kissing me like a log..that was days before we broke up.

    we never talked about it..but i'm just dying to know if intimacy is very important to maintaining a relationship. there are guys out there who say 'oooh some of us genuinely don't need intimacy'..really? i can't help but wonder whether we'll still be happily together if we never came back to singapore. sigh.

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  10. Anonymous1:56 pm

    ^and oh, we were together for almost a year.

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  11. Anonymous2:42 pm

    Anon 1:55:

    Isn't the real question why you never communicated with him about this in almost a full year?

    Doh!

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  12. Anonymous3:37 pm

    really? does sex really come together with a relationship? i've been with my bf for 3 years now, and i know that he wants to have sex. actually so do i haha, but some part of me deep down inside just feels like we should wait till after marriage, and i told him so. of course we do get intimate but we never go all the way lah. so far so gd, he doesnt seem different or less interested in me!
    it would be kinda sad if men need sex to sustain interest in their relationships... or is that really the sad truth?

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  13. Interesting post and its good you made your stand. And yes, guys do think that way of a gal if she's too easy. Sad but true, but I do not think all men who indulge women with flattery and charming ways are out to get them into bed. And I think it's not about being an appropriate length to get intimate but when do you see yourself spending the rest of your life with your potential date. Seriously these days where has romance and love disappeared to?

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  14. Anonymous6:13 pm

    anon 2:42pm

    er, how do you bring this issue across without offending him ? it's not as easy as it seems. 'hey you don't like me anymore because we are not having sex?' if i'm a guy i'll be insulted and offended to hear something along that line from my gf. anyway there is no point debating about it now anymore.

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  15. kingkong10:01 pm

    u guys make such a simple plain subject so complicated. back to fundamental, why drives the man to fuck? its engrave in our DNA to do so. we have the need to spread the seed cause we are build that way.

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  16. Honestly, sex is no big deal. Men have to stop being hypocrites and start accepting the fact that we women are horny too and can use you men for sex as much as you can on us! If a man dumped you over sex, or the lack of sex, he don't deserve you, seriously.

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  17. no matter what, sex after marriage for me. if the guy cnt wait, then i guess too bad. there are many other guys around. i would want my guy to respect me=)

    just broke up with my current boyfriend like ytd, and we've nv had sex. i guess we were like-minded souls who were too much like each other, and ended up like this. but what i was trying to say is, he does believe in sex after marriage too=)

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  18. mm I think there's no real WHEN like after how many dates or how many days... I think it's the level of comfort and how much I really trust and LIKE this person enough to get intimate with the person... I think it so important to see how the guy reacts when he gets some...

    And yes.. JOCKEY IS A JERK. *!&@*(!^#&*@

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  19. Anonymous12:16 am

    Sex on the 1st date and BJ on the 1st date are totally different story. If the girl perform a BJ on the 1st date, she is totally slut. haha!

    and for holly's story, if you took the jerk's key and still didn't have sex with him, I am not surprised that he would act this way. I mean if you want to hold yourself back, then don't have to take his key. But honestly, this JOCKEY also was a dumass. No guys would give his key away b4 even get the girl to this bed. haha!

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  20. Anonymous12:34 am

    I think having sex after the 1st date would be ok. but if the girl gives a good BJ after the 1st day, then she would be a total pro, or close to a pro. BUT if the girl like to perform good BJ, she will keep the guy for very very long time. Unfortunately, there are really not many girls can perform good BJ in Singapore. sigh!!!!!

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  21. anon 12.16- you view BJ on a first date as slutty.. but sex is ok? Interesting. And yes.. I guess that oral sex is actually MORE intimate than just plain sex. It requires more trust and closeness.

    I was naive, but not as if I took his key and was NEVER planning to ever sleep with him! lol. Just was a bit slow lah. But he was impatient.. so ... his loss. lol.

    The Bimbo- yes, agreed. I also find that how quickly I get comfortable.. or guarded... or intimate with a date has changed as I age. It starte doff real SLOW moving when I was a teenager. Then in my early 20s, it was almost as if I was impatient and eager to experience new things, new people. But now in my late 20s I'm back to taking my time again... more guarded.


    Hi CIn- Good for you. :) Hold strong to what you believe in.

    Fay- yes.. I hear you. Though... I once almost dumped a BF because sex was VERY bad. I was even cursing myself for only finding out wat sex was like with him 6 months into the relationship (when I've put in too much effort to just throw the r'ship away). haha.

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  22. Anonymous1:35 am

    Yes Holly, let's put this way, If Sex is a home run, then BJ for most of Singaporean is a Grand slam (means all the beses are full). So if a girl has sex with the man after the 1st date, then the man will think that he just hit a home rum, which is very normal for a "good player". but if the girl gives a BJ, then the man would think he just hit a grand slam, but after that the man would wonder "how come the bases are full but I am the 1st player come out to play?". haha! "Or she just play with other players b4 me?" hahaha!
    PS: BJ as the grand slam is only for Singaporean or most asian people; for western people, they would take Anal sex as the grand slam. lol!

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  23. Sex after marriage is way better right? But in terms of being open-minded, then it's rather you don't surrender your body to that guy only for a weeks of knowing him. Rather play hard to get than be called cheap. At least you still have your pride and dignity

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  24. Anonymous2:21 am

    Sad to see that there are so many girls still take sex as a leverage. Why don't you girls just enjoy sex, enjoy organism. Why do you girls so care about what we say or think about you. live your own life, and find a man who truly loves you. If a man truly love a girl, he won't give the fuck about her past.

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  25. Anonymous8:19 pm

    Shame Holly to hear you've had sex...Aren't your bf's peeved to know that you're not virgin? Maybe white men don't mind but Asian men do..

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  26. hmmm... the majority of my past BFs were asian. They were not virgins either.

    I think it depends on the stage one's at in the relationship. I'm against having sex too soon... or having sex too freely (being promiscuous, and having casual sex is a no-no).. but i don't frown upon someone simply because they aren't virgins.

    i certainly don't advocate that one should ONLY have sex after marriage or vice versa.

    of course, this topic is always open to an interesting discussion.

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  27. its not men who have double standards. when women sleep around OTHER women who call them sluts. in all reality, men love sluts not cos theyre promiscuous but they represent a certain sexual liberty. you'd largely find that most women are still clinging on to the traditional and outdated definition of the word "slut". Theyre the ones with the double standards. How likely are men, who oogle at the glossy pictures of semi naked women in glee likely to condemn then when they provide them with the visual image of them getting down and dirty :P anyway. its likely that most men love all these sexually aggressive and assertive women, or "sluts" like how most girls refer them to, if anything out of envious bitterness.

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  28. Curious Cat9:49 am

    Hi John,

    just wondering... when it comes to choosing a wife... would you likely choose the woman whom jumped into bed with you and sucked your cock, within hours of meeting you for the first time? (first date)

    Imagine all the first dates she's been on before meeting YOU!

    Or the woman (who loves sex just as much) but restrained herself for a few dates, just so she can get to know you better.

    It's nothing about other women calling sexual liberated women sluts. this post is asking whether men really look for sluts for wives? and is it so smart to portray ourselves this way? we might end up with STD and still no husband!

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  29. Anonymous3:32 pm

    what if John already has a wife? haha! then this won't be a problem for him. He just loves sluts, without STD of cos. haha!

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  30. Anonymous4:04 pm

    I do agree with Holly on the part abt 'regretting' to have held on for so long just to have a taste of the bad sex! Lol. Personally, in these modern times, I think sex between a pair is as important as other factors like trust, commitment etc etc, all those prim and proper stuff. Every human being has his needs. Imagine hanging on for months, or worst, years and then to marriage... and thereafter realising there are sexual problems (some can be rectified but imagine those that can't)... I wouldn't take such a big risk, yes, I call it a big risk. To me, I will have protected sex for the first time with a new guy but there is no hard and fast rule as to when (or where hahaha). I think a month to 3 months is a great 'window' to follow just so one gets to know the guy a LITTLE better. Having said that, I do also agree that there are times whereby things happen, things that are out of one's control. Sex is all after the 'feel' afterall. If you don't have the urge and desire... you won't be having it too. To me, stick with the 1-3 months thing and if really have to do it on the first date, use protection.

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  31. Hi curious cat,

    If a husband is what you're looking for, then his past sexual experiences wouldn't matter be it with women who "suck cock within hours of meeting him", if STDs are what you're worried about then its just better to abstain completely. knowing him after 3 dates or more wouldnt make him more sterile would it? and when we talk about dates, id hardly think its a blind date with someone who've you never had any decent conversation with before a meet up. is that even possible in this time and age? whos to say sleeping with your date at the first or second date makes you less chaste then say after 6 days? why not a hundred then or a thousand. these "moral" boundaries are so loosely drawn up that anyone can justify sex on one date as well as against 20. depending on circumstance and context yes two very big ambiguous and fluid variables id still hardly think men are less attracted sexually aggresive women at least not sexually assertive men. lol. on the other extreme chastity on both ends didnt quite lead to any good did it? look at how singaporeans have to be educated on how to MAKE babies. they fail the functional portion of sex, on a emotional passionate level, what good has all this sexual sobriety done for them. youd hardly think theyre having explosive passionate sex when they get to it. sexual assertiveness is a part of your personality if its not in you just dont do it. if it is and men or women love that then at least they love you for being you, being branded a slut,whore,playeur,stud, aside, these are just all labels for the lazy.

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  32. Anonymous8:46 am

    As a christian, I stand by by stand that there should only be sex after marriage but my bf has been pressurizing me for so long to have it with him. I feel super irritated with him. arghz. He's not a bad bf don't get me wrong....We've been together for abt 3 yrs already and he keeps telling me he has his needs..Am i v bad to keep him waiting 4 so long? We are in our early twenties..even if we marry it will be like in 7 yrs time and this waiting period is definitely driving him crazy @.@ Sigh. But I have my stand and I don't see why I have to compromise my stand for him. I wouldn't enjoy sex if I am so called forced to do it just to satisfy him.

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  33. Hi anon 8.46

    thnk u for sharing.

    Of course if tht is your stand, and it is what u think is right, then u shld stick by it. nothing wrong with it.

    but of course, your bf has his own stand too (regarding his 'needs'). And it is up to him to decide if it is right for him to wait 7 or so years before having sex and it is a sacrifice he's willing to make.

    with regard to his frustration and your irritation with the constant pressure... is there no middle ground? Is there some level at which the both of you can reach a compromise? like a certain level of intimacy perhaps

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  34. Happily Married Guy12:25 pm

    Well I've been in a relationship with my then gf now wife for 5 years. At the start , about 3 years we never had sex... as in all the way, but us guys really do need some sort of intimacy.

    It's actually a need. Yes stand by your belief by all means, but can't the rules bend alil. No penetration... but oral is fine. I mean I waited a long time too even before we got into that cos I really love my wife but you know, there should be some compromise.
    That's just my take on it...

    On the precious comments, I don't think sex really matters too much in the first 1 month... especially if you're looking for a long term relationship, if the guy likes you enough, he'll wait. If he just wants to get into your pants, he won't.

    Either way if you feel like doing it earlier, it really doesn't make you cheap either... but try not the first date unless you've known the guy for ages before dating him... grey area ha ha

    If the guy dumps/leaves you shortly after... it was never meant to be anyways... he was quite obviously just wanting to get into your pants... especially if he made some lame excuse for the break up.

    Guys who really just want a proper relationship won't judge you based on how fast you went into bed with them... just don't do it too fast... 1 day...

    Hope this helps the girls out there that was wondering whether sex is needed in a relationship. Cheers

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  35. thanks for tht. it's good to hear a level headed male perspective on the subject.

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  36. Anonymous4:42 pm

    "If a man has sex with many women... he's seen amongst peers as quite the stud and is envied by other men. But if a woman has many sexual partners, suddenly she's a whore.. promiscuous... so so cheap"

    If a key can open many locks, it’s a Master Key…but if a lock is opened by many keys, it’s a crap lock
    LOL~

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